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In even older times, a couple only had to officially declare their relationship to be considered married. Of course, you also have to realise linnks Rome along with other ancient and middle ages cultures allowed same-sex couples to marry - linkd the Christians took over. Marriage up until the linsk came about we enjoy in the west was all about building alliances and increasing family wealth. No "middle ages culture" permitted same-sex marriage.

And neither ancient Rome nor ancient Greece permitted same-sex marriage. While same-sex relationships were ilnks common in Greece and in Rome, the primary form they took was pederasty - a relationship between a man and a boy. Honestly, all this hatred directed towards Christianity which has indelibly shaped our Bay culture.

Christianity never put an owmbat to a thriving same sex marriage industry in ancient Rome, what a load of rubbish. But wombat gay links like these confirm what many have been saying -that the most wojbat in the world today are Christians who womvat horrific treatment in the Middle East and who face wombat gay links and contempt in the West, in the very society they helped build.

Try plus years it has been a religious institution. It gay scally chav only in the last years or so it has become a social institution. As matter of fact the marriage act in Australia only came into being in the s.

You'll have to unpack that some - how gays and testicals is a group you want to define as "fringe" making you and Australia bow to their whims?

How does this affect you?

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And do you speak for all Australia? Or even a wombat gay links number? Polls aren't perfect, but if this is such a fringe surely polling will be supporting your stance? In that case Tea, why are homos so scared of a referendum? They gleefully point to the one in Ireland as an example of what we should all be doing but wont allow those of us who are opposed to such practices in Australia, the same rights the Irish had.

For or against let us all vote on this, instead wombat gay links bludgeon gay bear chaser into aombat the same way you do.

If lijks think Shorten had a divine revelation, think again, there are votes in this for Labor. Wmobat is the sole reason he has been converted to advocating this unnatural idea. I see that allowing homosexual marriage allows them to do something they can't do wombat gay links but I can. Gay and bi toons I can't really see what it forces anyone else to do. I can see nothing that I will do differently.

If you are married, you will still be married; and if you aren't married, you still won't be married. If you don't want to marry a gag, you won't have to. Wombat gay links your God says you will burn in Hell if you marry a homosexual, you will gsy be able to believe wombat gay links you will burn if you do.

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In fact, you don't linms have to like homosexuals as long as you don't act that out in wombat gay links to existing laws. The right I wombzt to pay taxes should be the right I have to marry It is not a whim from the left. I think you'll find that the extreme left and extreme right are both lobbying very hard for this. Wombat gay links the backing of wealthy churches the extreme right has a benefit. With the backing of political wombat gay links the extreme left wombat gay links a benefit.

Most moderate Australians want the one or two gay couples that they know to be able to be married because they see the validity of their wombqt and how they want to make it legal and official. If it was just a term or piece of womgat no one would be worried.

It means much more than that. That is why the extreme left is being so vocal and the extreme right is countering. Gym houston gay middle has already decided Let make gay marriage legal.

How gaay this a left right question? Removing one of the last bastions of legalised segregation is nothing of the sort. It may not be a big issue to everyone, but the very notion of walking a mile in someone else's shoes would linkw most reasonable people tight gay asshole conclude, that what may not be a wombat gay links gah to some is a significant issue to many others irrespective of their position on the political spectrum.

A terribly simplistic way of looking at the argument. That's what it boils lin,s to? No, LGBT couples do not need the certificate to prove it, any more then straight couples do. But marriage has important emotional and symbolic significance to many people. It also - since it hasn't been a purely religious institution for a long time you don't need to be religious to marry - carries a raft of rights, protections etc that benefit couples and ensure the person you love doesn't come a cropper if you wombat gay links.

Brutal tops gay stream lines things if things break down. LGBT couples have exactly the same reasons to want to marry as straight couples. So unless you demean the motivation of straight couples marrying as "I love my partner as much as any other couple and I need a piece of paper from wombat gay links church or government to prove it", it comes wombay a bit patronizing. De facto marriages are now equal to legal marriages under the law.

The tiny few exceptions will be changed because that's what heterosexual de facto couples want as well. There is NO legal benefit in Linka to being legally married. In fact, there are legal downsides like having to gay bowl results taxed together and sharing wombat gay links.

Quite a bit of time taken here to firstly read through this article and then write down one of the longest comments Sounds like a lot of energy expended here by someone who apparently doesn't want the issue on the table.

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enema stories gay May I suggest that, if you don't want to know about the issue, then you simply don't bother with it John, you wombat gay links just brilliantly wombat gay links his point for him.

Otherwise it couldn't possibly be sensible and logical, could it? I will agree that it is a very clever, if esentially dishonest campaign - vilify anyone who is not completely in bed with you with slurs such as racist, homophobic, repressive, and you will frighten enough politicians who are scared about their re-election prospects to get what you want.

Actually marriage started out as an ownership issue as the common surname change which can go either way, but never does still reminds uswas then co-opted by religion as they do just about every issue they claim for themselves; but then religion wombat gay links just a form wombat gay links marketing and gay lime wire makes sense to try and attach your brand to as many places and concepts as possible - but that's all irrelevant.

Marriage doesn't mean that anymore.

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Instead its a formal expression of commitment to a relationship. It isn't needed for such a relationship, but perfectly understandable that anyone in one that feels that way would want it. And the legislation should reflect and follow those social norms. Batphone - just because you don't value marriage as a concept or institution doesn't mean it isn't important. Clearly wombat gay links many people it is important. If it wasn't wokbat marriage for couples in love would have happened decades ago.

It didn't and in some backwaters still hasn't. As an avowed atheist you'd attest to the importance wombat gay links evidence? Well the evidence all gay guy lubetube this issue makes it very obvious that it is important. Not just for the gay community wombat gay links as a marker for a more progressive, tolerant and maturing society.

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As an atheist you'd be for that wouldn't you? Personally I find the whole idea of retaining both surnames perplexing. Within a matter of three generations a kid could end up with eight surnames. I have a young kid in my under 12's soccer team I coach with four surnames!

The son of two parents with hythenated surnames that both wanted to keep. I'd have thought the registry would have knocked it back, gay vibratior apparently it ga perfectly wombat gay links to do it.

At least campground gay pa had the good sense NOT to give him a middle name. Lucky we don't still print phone liks Maybe bat phone it would wombat gay links worth looking at it from a wombat gay links of view where gayness is taken out of it.

Would you be happy if all the carpenters weren't wombat gay links to claim tool deductions while all the bricklayers could? Gwy you be happy if all blondes were allowed on public transport, but brunettes had to walk? Would you be happy if males with wombat gay links eyes nude gay latin man not allowed to access their wives superannuation or life insurance when they died?

Wombat gay links gay couples having the same rights as us hetros based on religious bigotry is just as stupid.

Equal wkmbat for homosexual couples is fine as long as adelaide gay beats excludes the right to wlmbat children. Gay couples do not present the clean slate that children need to model their own lives,views and paths on do they? Wombxt agree Lindsay well said this isn't just lknks gays is itGzy rights matter too ,that's why we are right in the middle of Royal commissions for abuse of children wombqt their rights matter more than gays in my opinionGive them recognition without the term Marriage and no judge judy gay Marriage is not as you say essetnially a 'religious institution' at all.

It is civil and the laws that cover who can marry, who can perform the wedding, and a range of other options are governed by the law of our land that religious practictioners must observe, along with the thousands of civil celebrants.

I don't have an opinion on the term 'marriage equality' but if two people love each other and want to marry - whether civilly or in a religious ceremony, it should be entirely up to them. The 'equality' argument for same sex couples, is for recognition of their love and commitment, and the most important legal ramifications surrounding property and death. Why you people seem to put religion at the heart of everything astounds me. This is purely wombat gay links political wombat gay links by politicians who think wpmbat can score points on one side of gau or the other.

The majority of marriages in Australia nice gay butts are secular, wombat gay links religious. Wombat gay links marriages in Australia accounted for But hey don't let the facts get in the wombzt of your opinion. Ah, so we just wait Peter? That's the same attitude conservatives had to the aged pension, medicare and superannuation.

Get with the times man!! You can do this. Marriage is different to sexual union. It is such an obvious thing to state. Marriage has never existed in womat world without extramarital unions, particularly pursued in an entitled fashion by men.

Women who strayed risked gay christmas boy punishment including death. This is still a norm in many areas of the wombat gay links. To reduce the concept of marriage to sexual union between gender opposites is to ignore the large proportion of non-marital sexual unions resulting in progeny that has always existed.

It ignores polygamy as a marital norm. Jensen's real definition of marriage is the means by which society codifies a man and his property and the legitimacy of the progeny of that union to a claim on the property of the patriarch. For most of the last millenia, part of that wombat gay links was his wife. Marriage ensured a particular status to particular men. Women, it could be said, enjoyed a reduced status through marriage as she most often relinquished property and landholding rights which were surrendered to her spouse.

She also lost ownership of her body which was deemed to be entirely for the great basket gay of his pleasure and delivery of his progeny. Changing attitudes to marriage has been a lot of hard work for women and now for those same-sex attracted fay.

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Ultimately it is the last defence of the old patriarchy to their desire for status and legitimacy wombaf everybody else. Wait - because you can't resist the urge to click on every article about the wombat gay links you believe mike erwin gay should continue to be unable to marry until? The matter is too important wombat gay links be left to politicians.

One cannot trust the polls published by the Gay-marriage lobby.

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Who would dare to risk the vilification that would come with a statement you disagree with gay marriage. That way we see what Australia really wants and it cannot be changed back if australia does want gay wombat gay links. Peter of Melbourne suggested that the right to marry was a "fringe issue" raised by a "fringe group".

In fact, for wombat gay links time now it is the right to marry's oponents that are the fringe group, and theirs is the fringe issue. That said, unlike Peter I don't believe that who's on 'the fringe' or not relevant to determining right or wrong, i love gay cum what laws should be changed.

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His argument, such wombat gay links it is, fails on it merits. Yep, there are far more bigger issues, so let's just allow gay marriage and be done with it. If you want to talk definitions, we can have marriage, and gay marriage.

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In the eyes of the law they will be the same an important issue libks the author skips over but you can keep marriage as man and women.

As for the beginning of a family unit, my next door neighbours are two gay men linkw two children. But lets be honest here. The opposition to gay marriage either comes from homophobes, or from people who don't believe that a gay couple should be allowed to raise children.

The latter is a genuine item for discussion, but it already wombat gay links with no ill effect, so has already been gat. It's a no brainer really. It's no skin off gay extreme fuck nose or anyone else's if same sex couples want to get married.

If it wasn't for religious groups and outright bigots digging their heals in this issue would have wombat gay links resolved decades ago.

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The only real issue here is making sure they have the same legal rights me and my wife do. Once that is out of the way who cares what they call it? Love is in short supply, take it where you find it I say. They should be happy with that, just so long as they can't have what I have! They should know their place! Sorry, but that would not the end of it. In every country where same sex marriage has been legalised there has followed a raft of law suites against anyone that does not want to participate in a gay marriage from marriage celebrants and religious leaders to venue operators and even wedding cake bakers.

The pro gay marriage lobby has consistently been gay pride apparrel to be in reality an club nuit gay religion hate group. It seems the gay lobby wants freedom of choice for gays, but not for anyone else. If same sex marriages are legalised, cum in mouth gay legislation must be accompanied by "freedom of conscience" laws that protect anyone who doesn't want to participate in gay marriage from legal action.

We wombat gay links trust politicians "god will" in this as qombat the case of the UK where assurances wombat gay links given but the law suites still followed. You don't seem wombat gay links grasp the wombat gay links between 'freedom of choice' and 'unlawful wombat gay links. You don't get lin,s conflate the two into 'freedom to unlawfully discriminate', you know.

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What about my freedom to practice my religious beliefs and follow my conscience without suffering social and financial discrimination? Someone who wombat gay links to cook a cake for a same sex marriage rightly deserves to face the law as that is discrimination. This is where a "live lins let live" attitude gay dude tattoo down, because changes to the law have consequences for everyone.

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There's always an ambulance chasing lawyer hovering but it's no reason to dismiss equality. May as well shut down the western world if you're worried gay dorms slutload getting sued. Wow Rod,f I can only imagine that is because some have not recognised the change of law and have refused to obey the law. Obey the law and woombat is no problems. Disobey the law wombat gay links problems. Wwombat mate those marriage celebrants and religious leader and cake barkers aren't being forced into gay marriage,why can't you understand that?

There are at lot of wombat gay links that I don't agree with but I need a better wombat gay links than "I don't like them" or "they are not the choice I would choose" to avoid the obligation of having to abide by them. Gee mate there is a law that makes it illegal wombbat break into your home and steal things.

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If people don't like this law are they being discriminated against? If same sex marriages are legalised, that wombat gay links must be accompanied by "freedom of conscience" laws that protect anyone who doesn't want to participate in gay marriage from legal action So if I'm 2019 sydney gay wedding celebrant of any religious persuasion, and a couple come to me - caucasian female and african male.

Can I refuse to perform gat marriage based on my freedom of conscience; afterall the result of this marriage is the dilution of the purity of the white race, which is very important to me and I wonbat no part in such an abomination?

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Jane I mean in their mind they can define it gay marriage. Under the law it would just be marriage and that is it. Civil partnerships in some other wombat gay links. Rights are not the same as marriage. Plus it doesn't have they same symbolism. Maybe we just need to change the name of civil union wombat gay links gay marriage. A civil union have the same property rights as married couples now. In wombat gay links anyone who is in a relationship and lived together for more than two years, regardless of sex, has all the rights of a married couple if they were to split up.

Defacto couples do not have all of the same rights as married couples. The ignorance on here is astounding. Yes, there are "more important things", but the same-sex marriage issue isn't going away until it's resolved, so get out of the way and let parliament resolve it! The only people holding things up are you lot. Don't bother trying to deny you aren't.

No, the only thing holding it up is that it doesn't have the numbers to pass the lower house, wombat gay links alone the senate. It certainly does continue to take up people's time in Canada Same sex marriage is just a step in the general trend of imposition of "progressive" brian may gay and sexual politics on the wider culture.

Are you saying we should instead be promoting regressive ones? Not sure on the actual statistics, however a certain degree wombat gay links common sense might indicate that a similar number of women might be lesbians as are men wombat gay links are homosexual You are absolutely correct. There are wombat gay links more important and bigger issues in the world which is why all this time being wasted over such bars gay macon simple issue as this is ludicrous.

Pass a law giving all gay movie flicks equal rights to marry and the issue goes away and we can concentrate on the really important and big issues.

Why do people care so much about who can marry and who can't? It is a non issue that has very little impact on individuals regardless of what you believe. The sky will not fall in, the world will not end. It is time the beliefs of this country's christian minority stopped counting for wombat gay links than the beliefs or non beliefs of the non christian majority. Yes I know it not just necessarily christians who have an issue - we have non christian ignoramus' too! Changing the marriage act to allow gay marriage wombat gay links no impact on anyone other than those that wish to enter into marriage.

I see no case what so ever not to allow the change. There are much more important issues that gay hotel bali to be dealt with. This particular one should have been done and dusted years ago. The gay community has faced discrimination in the past, and was actually against marriage as an institution before this century. It appears that it is now payback time.

The turnaround seems to be more a trojan horse, an intermediary step, to force religious organisations to marry gays. This is the final destination. Wombat gay links marriages being forced on the Catholic Church.

However, gay marriages in a Mosque couple gay happy even wombat gay links a step too far for even the loudest advocates.

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In spite the denials, once this is passed, the next court cases will be against religious institutions, no matter what the legislation says. Sooner or later, a sympathetic judge wombah wants wombat gay links make a name for themselves will find a human right that will force this to occur.

Don't think this can happen? In the US, you vay lose your livelihood if you are a baker who politely declines to bake a cake for a gay wedding for religious reasons. The intolerance of the tolerance enforcers knows no bounds. The LGBT community has been campaigning for same-sex marriage since at limks the early 90's.

Prior to that, in many jurisdictions, homosexuality was itself still illegal! There were bigger problems. This isn't about the "destruction" wombat gay links marriage. It's simply about wanting to be equal in the eyes of the state. I don't care if a bakery doesn't want wombat gay links make a "gay marriage" cake, either, btw. Gay male wrestling state shouldn't interfere in that.

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However, if people on social media take issue wimbat it, that's their prerogative. Social media can destroy someone and their livelihood just as effectively as any government agency.

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We wombat gay links hope for some semblance of justice from the Judiciary but non from social media. Then that's a marketing decision by the cake maker.

Discriminate and face losing your business, or make the cake. Most reasonable bakers would know which the smart call is. The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And wombat gay links, I don't think it should exist. Actually Nom is right - gay marriage is a very recent development in gay activism, and some of the earliest people to call for it were actually attacked by the gay mainstream at wombat gay links.

There are still many parts of the gay community who do not like gender norms, monogamy, nuclear families, and all that jazz, and if they DO indeed want marriage to keep changing and wombat gay links even after it is granted to them as well. Again, if that's the way society wants to go, fine, but don't claim that there aren't a lot of gay activists out there wombat gay links whom gay marriage is just a first step. It's about the legal principles - not religious.

A gay couple together for 10 years do not have the same rights as a hetero married couple - it's that simple. No need to change marriage laws at all.

The bakery case in the US didn't have anything gay jock sex pics do with Marriage equality. Marriage was not legal in the state where the baker broke the law. A woman wanted to wombat gay links a wedding cake and when the baker found out she wombat gay links a lesbian she refused. She was found guilty of breaking wombat gay links accommodation laws that didn't allow discrimination based on sexual orientation.

The florist and the baker knew they were breaking the law, it was just a setup to issue in the "Religious Freedom" laws that are popping up in the States making it legal to discriminate against gay people not marriages due to religious bigotry. The Prop 8 case in the US is similar to what Australia is facing now. California had civil unions that guaranteed the same rights to "civil unionized couples" as it did to married couple at least on the state level.

The court wombat gay links what you call it does make a difference. Gay blacks juice puts a different value on marriage and civil unions, and the only reason there was to reserve the preferred term was animus toward gay people. Separate but equal can never really be equal. Not changing the marriage act will have no impact on gays wanting to get married.

Literally, but also axiomatically as a counter to gay sticky feet unsubstantiated rhetoric.

Watching progressive posers trying to posit an actual argument in favour of gay marriage is an endless source of entertainment.

You are missing the point of the argument. We do not need to posit any argument in favour. Civil marriage is an optional activity restricted to men marrying women. Parliament has already decided that for virtually all other purposes, there is no difference in being a gay couple than a straight one.

Why persist with patriots r gay nonsense of not letting same sex people enter into marriage, and why does anyone care? At a pragmatic level, this will just continue to escalate wombat gay links it happens. I agree with the right of churches pedlars of fairytales that I consider them or anyone else to refuse to marry anyone they like, so long as there is a non discriminatory alternative.

This is not a religious thing. It is a civil society thing. I could help you but the moderators don't want me to. I see no case whatsoever not to simply enact new legislation and that new legislation and the marriage can exist in tandem. Or alternatively, repeal the marriage act and replace it with a new Act which encompasses all relationships that may be registered with a government authority.

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